How Does The Economy Relate To Religion And Theology ~ an interview with Dr. Joerg Rieger

Posted on Nov 15, 2009 - 03:15 PM

Fortress Press: In your new book, No Rising Tide, you claim that religion is shaped by economics and that religion also has the power to transform certain economic realities. How exactly does the economy relate to religion and theology?

Joerg Rieger: In No Rising Tide, I pick up an argument made by economists that economics today is functioning more and more like a religion. Statements like “a rising tide will lift all boats” are not grounded in an analysis of what is going on in the economy but in deeply held convictions and ideals. The problem is that this sort of religion functions on the basis of what I call a “blind faith.” This is a sort of “blind faith” that can also be found often in religion, and I suspect that there are parallels: people who are conditioned to accept things on blind faith in religion are more likely to accept things on blind faith in economics as well.

The good news is that there are alternatives. If religion does not have to mean accepting things on blind faith, neither does economics. Jesus did not demand blind faith. When John the Baptist began having doubts about whether Jesus would be the promised Messiah, Jesus did not encourage him to believe blindly and without question; rather, he provided some evidence when he told John’s followers: “Go and tell John what you hear and see: the blind receive their sight, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the poor have good news brought to them” (Matt 11:4-5).

I might sound paradoxical, but I am arguing that in our current situation theology can help economics to develop an approach that deals more with real-life issues. The task is not to refute faith but to tie it to what is going on not only at the top but also where the economic crisis has hit hardest: at the bottom.

FP: In your book, you talk a lot about desire. How does desire help relate the economy to theology? How does that relate to our consumer economy?

JR: My point is that desire, as we encounter it today, is not a natural human trait but produced by the free-market economy. And if desire is produced, it can also be reshaped. Having said that, the real question is: How is desire produced and how can we reshape it? The common critiques of consumerism, for instance, do not help much in understanding what is going on, because they tend to blame individual consumers, as if they were the problem. The problem goes deeper, as economic consumption is based on the more basic need to increase economic production. In order to sustain economic growth in a free-market economy, economic production needs to grow as much as possible, and this growth is supported by the advertising industry. As a result, consumerism is something that is intentionally encouraged and produced by the free-market economy; it does not arise within the innermost selves of people. Moreover, this sort of consumerism is not about desires for more things but about ideals. The advertising industry sells material things by promising ideal things like love, happiness, fulfillment, and so on.

Theology can help us form alternative desires only if we understand how complex the formation of desire is. Common injunctions to become “less materialistic,” for instance, do not help at all, because the advertising industry connects material things with ideals. Moreover, merely replacing one set of ideals with another set of ideals also does not work, if the production of desire is rooted in the imperative of economic production.

As a result, we need to engage economic production theologically, which brings us to the question of religion and labor. How is labor organized in our society, who benefits and who does not? How could labor be organized in alternative ways, so that it contributes to the formation of alternative desire and alternative consumption? The book addresses these kinds of questions.

FP: Can you explain why most people are less well-off despite the upturn in the economy?

JR: My title No Rising Tide refers to the shocking realization that while the economy goes in cycles, more and more people do not benefit from economic upturns any more. This problem could be observed, in part, already during the economic upturn of the 1990s, but things are getting worse. If nothing changes, things will get worse yet.

The question of why this is happening is a touchy one, and it demands that we address matters of class and power, which are not fashionable at the moment. While everyone talks about the growing gap between rich and poor, for instance, few are discussing the root causes. In addition, postmodern sensitivities and even some postcolonial ones are weary of binaries and dichotomies. Yet dichotomies and binaries are quite real here.

The question needs to be raised: Who benefits from the economy as it currently functions? Let me give just one example: According to the law, corporations are required to work for the benefit of their stockholders rather than their workers. As a result, reducing salaries and benefits of workers is considered good business practice. People that have traditionally considered themselves to be middle class are more and more affected by these dynamics as well. To be sure, many people own some shares in the stock market, but this may not even be enough to fund people’s retirements, as the economic viability of stock-based retirement plans is also in question.

So the question is not just why people are less well-off but also where the immense wealth that is produced goes. It is fairly well known that CEOs now make a salary of 400 or 500 times what their workers make (up from 12 times in the 1960s). It is much less known that top investors make 20,000 times what workers make. However, the problem is not just money. The problem has to do with growing differentials of power. Some are in positions where they can make the free-market economy work for them while others are not.

FP: What do you see as the most hopeful economic and cultural signs beyond this current malaise? How do you hope your work contributes to that hope?

JR: In a situation where so much is based on blind faith, the most hopeful thing from a Christian perspective is that Christianity does not have to be based on blind faith, as I pointed out above. The question for us is what difference God makes in this situation? In my book, I consider this question in terms of what is actually going on “on the ground.” I find hope, for instance, in various embodiments of the religion and labor movement, which is gathering steam. Here, Jesus’ concern for the “least of these” is embodied in a very real sense, as people from various walks of life and even from various classes work together to address and redress the grave power imbalances that have resulted in our economic crisis.

In this context, theology makes a difference as it helps us understand some of the key challenges of the Christian faith. Reflections on the common good, for instance, now have to take into account whether everyone has access to it. As a result, the common good is being rethought from the bottom up, from the perspective of those who commonly are left out of economic and theological considerations. Notions of justice are now being rethought as well, as the current system functions on the basis of notions of justice that appear to create more and more injustice. Even the question of private property can be seen in new light from a theological perspective—but I don’t want to give away too much of the argument of the book just yet!

In the process, some of the core concerns of the Judeo-Christian traditions gain new life and are beginning to make a real difference once again. But as I say at the end of the preface, don’t take my word for it: “You will know them by their fruits” (Matt 7:16).

Joerg Rieger is the author of No Rising Tide: Theology, Economics, and the Future, Fortress (2009).

To view the actual article from Fortress Press CLICK HERE.

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